Eighth Dialogue - Emily, Erin, Carmen

Eighth Dialogue - Emily, Erin, Carmen

by Carmen Fontao Noya -
Number of replies: 0

1) What is the scenario described in your dialogue (i.e. which number is it, and who is in love with whom?)

We read the eighth dialogue which was a conversation between a man of higher nobility who is also a clerk and a noblewoman of the same class. The clerk is actively seeking the noblewoman’s love despite her initial resistance to his love. 

2) How do gender dynamics come into play? 

  • The noblewoman had the position of sovereign judge while the clerk was her humble petitioner.  

  • It is shown that woman is supposed to test the man’s sincerity by making cautious promises and then deliberately delaying, retracting, or postponing intimacy to see if he remains true or turns to anger. The noblewoman also makes a point to highlight the social risk. While a man’s reputation can remain largely unaffected by love affairs, a woman’s reputation is easily tarnished. 

  • Rather than being a passive object of desire, the noblewoman gladly seizes any opportunity to ridicule the clerk’s arguments, clothes, and claims of clerical superiority. 

3) How do class dynamics play out? 

  • The characters are very aware of their elite status. The clerk advises the noblewoman to engage in “lofty subjects” so her noble birth is apparent. They disparage lower-class styles of speaking, dismissing simplistic answers or stubborn proverbs as things that should be left to country women. 

  • The clerk claims that excellence of character or wisdom is what makes a woman noble. Additionally, claiming many women falsely claim the titles of lady or damsel. 

  • True courtly love is presented as an elite, high-minded activity. Pure love (amor purus) requires mental contemplation, affection, and physical intimacy, short of intercourse. Those who bypass the intellectual bond to seek immediate physical gratification are unworthy and compared to dogs. 

4) What is the ultimate outcome for the pair? 

The clerk fails to win the noblewoman’s love. “Therefore, since I am still unshaken in my determination not to love you, you must not take it amiss if I refuse to cheat you with deceitful postponements.” (133). She gives a definite rejection because she is already deeply in love with another man and is bound to him. They realize they have been debating for a long time and risk sparking gossip, so they mutually agree to end the conversation. 

5) Is there any specific moment you want to highlight? (optional) 

On page 113, the clerk says "For in the business of love all men are rivals and are very jealous of each other..." Again, the concept of jealousy is brought up, which continues to contradict its other definitions within this text. Considering previous statements such as "He who is jealous cannot love" and "Real jealousy always increases the feeling of love" (185) and Andreas Capellanus' claims about love only exisiting between a man and a woman, is there still a way we can read the clerk's opinion with a homoerotic lens?